Curse

Vorlin · Jul 20, 2005, 07:56 PM // 19:56

I see lots of posts in various forums from Rangers, Necros, and Mesmers about their difficulties in finding groups, or difficulty with the group they do find understanding just what they are doing. I believe a big part of this is simply that GW is still a very new game, and many people you see are probably playing their first character.

For someone new to GW, the classes of Warrior, Elementalist, and Monk are pretty straightforward. You can come here from pretty much any RPG and figure out a decent build for either of those three and probably use them fairly effectively. But Ranger, Necro, and Mesmer are more subtle builds, exploting them to max effectiveness pretty much requires you to have a good understanding of the combat/spell mechanics of GW.

So a lot of people are probably avoiding these three at first (both in creating them and in grouping with them) because they simply don't understand yet the power of them. My guess is that over the next couple of months we'll see this issue gradually disappear as the playerbase becomes filled with more people who understand the game better. Also you'll start seeing more and more of these three classes played up to their potential, and that will help spread the word that these are -not- weak classes, just subtle/complex ones.

Aniewiel · Jul 20, 2005, 08:06 PM // 20:06

GW isn't really an MMORPG. I've said this a bunch but I'll say it one more time because...well...I like to say it.

GW is more of an FPS with RPG elements thrown in. While set in a fairly "high fantasy" environment, you are basically "shooting" monsters and, certainly in PvP, you are chasing after the opposing team (much like Unreal Tournament). The RPG elements come into play with quests and somewhat with the leveling (though even that is very limited).

I agree to a point that warriors, fire casters and healers are well-represented in RPGs though I would also argue that necromancers and rangers (definitely) are as well. They just have to find their niche within this so-called hybrid game. But you are absolutely correct that, as time goes on, the appreciation of the lesser-played classes will go up.

And, welcome by the way!

Calrisian Nantos · Jul 20, 2005, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Some people also havent witnessed the power of an all ranger trapping team,or an all necro minion/horror team,it is truly amazing sometimes

Aniewiel · Jul 20, 2005, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calrisian Nantos

Some people also havent witnessed the power of an all ranger trapping team,or an all necro minion/horror team,it is truly amazing sometimes

Amen! There is nothing I like better than to have my monk planted right behind the Hamburger Brigade that some necro makes. Makes her feel all warm and...greasy?

AgentG · Jul 20, 2005, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aniewiel

GW is more of an FPS with RPG elements thrown in.

Guild Wars is nothing like a FPS.

Mormegil · Jul 20, 2005, 08:19 PM // 20:19

I totally agree with you. Nice and well thought out post, finally something original.

Arthur Eld · Jul 20, 2005, 08:20 PM // 20:20

A First-Person-Shooter? Guild Wars? Well, I think I'm gonna go play my favorite pencil and paper RPG, Quake 3.

Lethal_Poison · Jul 20, 2005, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Isnt Guild Wars in third person anyway? How can it be a first person anything if you can visibly see your character on the screen running around? Wolfenstein is a FPS, Halo is a FPS, Guild Wars couldnt even be mistaken for one.

Algren Cole · Jul 20, 2005, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lethal_Poison

Isnt Guild Wars in third person anyway? How can it be a first person anything if you can visibly see your character on the screen running around? Wolfenstein is a FPS, Halo is a FPS, Guild Wars couldnt even be mistaken for one.

you can't play Guild Wars in first person??? funny...everyone else can

Epinephrine · Jul 20, 2005, 08:31 PM // 20:31

GW is close to being an FPS in some ways - if you use the first person perspective it really feels much more like one. It doesn't target by your direction though, but instead by the target selection process, which is much less FPS-like. I'd agree that GW is not an MMORPG, and is an action RPG.

As to the actual topic; yes, it is young - in addition, people are dumb. And loathe to try new things. I remember thinking it would be fun to try missions with only rangers for example; Iwas right, it was fun, aand successful. Teamwork and good players are a great combination, and nothing enforces team play like not having a monk

Now, I doubt this would work in later areas, but it is fun and teaches you a lot about your character.

BurningPants · Jul 20, 2005, 08:32 PM // 20:32

It's been many months since the game has come out and I have noticed a few different things. For the first time when someone saw a mesmer in their party they said "Oh good, a mesmer" instead of "Oh, a mesmer...".

Hopefully though people read up on the game before they buy it, if i had known how complex mesmers could be, I might have made that my first character instead of a warrior. But for now, calling people who don't like a certain class a "newb" is a good way to go.

AgentG · Jul 20, 2005, 08:32 PM // 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

I'd agree that GW is not an MMORPG, and is an action RPG.

Bingo. Much like Diablo in many ways.

Teklord · Jul 20, 2005, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Guild Wars if FPS in only one way: when you are zoomed all the way in and looking through your character eyes. That is all, and that is minor.

Guild Wars is MMO in the Towns/Outposts/Misison Sites.

Guild Wars is regular ol' action RPG everywhere else. More specifically Co-op RPG in the same respect my friends and I used to get together to Co-op Diablo II.

Its not a tradition MMORPG, in more ways than one. Yet is is much closer to that than an FPS...

Aniewiel · Jul 20, 2005, 08:38 PM // 20:38

When I said FPS, smarties, I meant it resembled one much moreso than an RPG.

I certainly didn't mean that the game itself was 1st person. Sheesh...I'm not quite that dumb.

When I said that it resembled an FPS I meant mechanically: You run around and kill things. In PvE, you add quests and missions into the mix to give it an RPGish feel. In PvP it is really no different that most team-based shooters: My team kills your team.

Action RPG? That works.

Ultimate_Gaara · Jul 20, 2005, 08:39 PM // 20:39

thats all GW really is its a 3d version of Diablo, which isnt hard to understand seeing how the same people who worked on that game worked on this

as for the thinking that this is a MMO.. maybe when your in a town where there are like 50 people yelling "WTS".. but after that you loose all sight of any mmo factor

Digital Bath · Jul 20, 2005, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultimate_Gaara

thats all GW really is its a 3d version of Diablo, which isnt hard to understand seeing how the same people who worked on that game worked on this

as for the thinking that this is a MMO.. maybe when your in a town where there are like 50 people yelling "WTS".. but after that you loose all sight of any mmo factor

Gah! The people who made Diablo DID NOT work on this game. Everyone just seems to assume that, and it is not the truth. The majority of the original Diablo team went and made their own company, "Flagship Studios." Maybe 1, if that, worked on GW that were from Diablo but that's it.

And, if anything, GW is an online Morrowind.

PieXags · Jul 20, 2005, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Yeah, just one thing.

Don't suggest that GuildWars isn't an RPG. It might not be a "MMORPG" but it IS an RPG. The only one who can decide that is the developers, and here it is from their mouths (fingers).

"Rather than labeling Guild Wars an MMORPG, we prefer to call it a CORPG (Competitive Online Role-Playing Game)."

From the GW website, it IS an RPG.

Vorlin · Jul 20, 2005, 08:51 PM // 20:51

I'd never argue terminology (RPG, FPS, whatever) because in my experience -everyone- is right: if GW feels like an FPS to you then it is, etc. -Anything- can be an RPG, two kids with sticks standing in cardboard boxes are RPGing that they are pirates on the open seas.

The reason I used MMORPG to describe GW is that in the context of my post that definition seems most fitting. It's been my experience (I started online gaming back when Federation first opened up on AOL) over the years that it takes about a year for a new online RPG (whether a Mud or an MMORPG) to 'settle down', i.e. to get the balance worked out and to get a playerbase that understands and utilizes that balance properly.

GW might settle down faster than that when it comes to balance, because IMO ANet has done a beautiful job balancing the classes (so far noone has come up with an uncounterable PvP combo, and that's a sign of good balance). And, of course, when it comes to players some people learn faster than others. But, like I said, in my experience it takes about a year for the 'group dynamic' to settle down into a more or less stable form (more stable if ANet makes relatively few game changes from then on, less stable if the game is altered in significant ways fairly frequently).

In a way, it's most fun in many ways when things aren't settled down yet. That's when you can see some real creativity in action (both in PvE and PvP). Considering how many combos one character can run, and considering the additional factor of the ways an organized group can exploit a custom design (where each member has a specific set of skills/spells so that the group as a whole can execute a certain combat strategy) I expect to see some new and very interesting PvP/PvE designs over the next few months (at least).

Lasareth · Jul 20, 2005, 08:52 PM // 20:52

I always thought of GW as a watered down card game like MTG :P

You have a "deck" of skills and gotta match it against others, using counters, time limited skills, and the like to beat the other guys' skillsets.

It's just a little more complicated due to having 8 people doing it at once, and having time as the limiting factor instead of turn numbers.

Algren Cole · Jul 20, 2005, 08:54 PM // 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasareth

I always thought of GW as a watered down card game like MTG :P

You have a "deck" of skills and gotta match it against others, using counters, time limited skills, and the like to beat the other guys' skillsets.

It's just a little more complicated due to having 8 people doing it at once, and having time as the limiting factor instead of turn numbers.

the time in this game is a turn...your idea is pretty spot on accurate.